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<h1>SFP#52: Policy and EU: Insights from the T-DOSE conference and the Dutch community</h1>
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<p><a href="/news/podcast/2026/episode-52.html">SFP#52 Policy and EU: Insights from the T-DOSE conference and the Dutch community</a></p>
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<pre class="transcript">
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<div class="content-centered"><h1 class="post-title"><a>Back to the episode SFP#52</a></h1>
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WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome to the Software Freedom Podcast.
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Thank you so much our dear listener for listening to this podcast without you, this would not
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be possible.
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So thank you very much.
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This podcast is brought to you by the Free Software Foundation Europe.
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We are charity that empowers users to control technology.
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I'm Bonnie Mehring and today I'm here with Nico Rikken.
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Nico is a long-term FSFE volunteer and yeah he has been around for quite a while now and I'm
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very very happy to have you here Nico on the Software Freedom Podcast.
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Thank you so much for making it.
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Yeah, hi, Bonnie.
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Thanks for having me.
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It's great to be on the podcast.
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So far we have never managed to record an episode before, right?
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00:59.680 --> 01:06.000
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So this is the first time you're here but we did record the ending of one episode.
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01:07.280 --> 01:08.160
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Yeah, that's true.
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01:08.160 --> 01:13.440
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So then was my first first appearance on the podcast and now let's see what we end up.
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01:14.160 --> 01:15.440
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Very, very curious.
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All right, Nico how did your journey with the FSFE start and then exactly did you join the FSFE?
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I joined the FSFE in the beginning of May 2014 and I was invited on the mailing list
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01:29.760 --> 01:38.560
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and there I was invited by Felix to also come to the local Nijmegen Linux user group
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which is quite close to where I live.
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So I joined and then Felix immediately asked,
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fired at me like, oh yeah, T-DOSE is coming up.
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Will he want to join and there will be good and you can help with the booth.
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01:50.160 --> 01:51.840
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So before I know it, there was T-DOSE.
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And then before I know it, it was, well, if you like T-DOSE, you might as well come to FOSDEM.
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And for me, even coming to the local Linux user group, before going there,
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for me free and open source software was something that I was doing online,
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on my room, on the couch with the laptop, reading, maybe posting some things.
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And then to be in a group of people that all think along the same lines as you do,
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there was so heartwarming that I wanted to have more of that and I found that from the Linux user
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group then to T-DOSE and then to, wow, if you look at FOSDEM, it's overwhelming the amount
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of energy and like many people that you meet there. So that's really great.
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So because I've had this very interesting, now you had this local user,
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Linux user group, who is also connected to the FSFE with Felix and who invited you to the mailing
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list and invited you to all of those events. But you are very much engaged with all of us now,
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like you're, you could be our co-workers, that's how much you do for the FSFE sometimes.
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So I'm wondering, what made you stick around there? Like, I joined the FSFE to make an impact
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in the world. At least that was my idea because I found it important. Also at that time,
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there was the Snowden leaks. I thought there's a lot of people concerned about privacy, but actually,
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how do you get privacy when you have no control on the devices underpinning that privacy in the digital
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world? And I didn't see many people having that mindset that there was really important.
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And looking for that, I found that FSFE. I was familiar with that by the open source software,
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but I wasn't as much familiar with the ideas behind it. And looking at FSFE is like,
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ah, would there be a European counterpart? And before I know that, I found FSFE. And
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getting more engaged with FSFE, I found lots of friendly people, and we were all trying to
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make an impact. And I could really see the impact that we were making. And it's also a nice European
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network to, yeah, being engaged with different cultures, different viewpoints, and everybody so
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friendly. And yeah, I really like that. So for me, it's on one hand doing something that's
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good for society, I think. I'm really convinced about that. But also, we do it together with the
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whole whole community of FSFE, which gives me a lot of energy and fulfillment. Wow, thank you very
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much. Very happy to have you here. And I hope we keep having you around for quite a while.
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Yeah, thank you. I'm sure I will. So today we will be talking about the Dutch conference called
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T-DOSE. I'm not quite sure if I'm pronouncing this correct. I guess I am. It's English, or?
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Yeah, I think it's intended to be pronounced English. Everybody talks about T-DOSE.
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But the funny thing is, it could be a play on words, I don't know, but with a T-Box, but I don't
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know if that's a case. It has been called that. That's actually really funny. I will keep that in mind.
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But I don't know the origin of the name, actually. So that's the story I can't tell much about.
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Ah, alright. Don't worry. We will have enough to talk about, because this conference T-DOSE
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has just happened over the six and sevenths of June, so basically last weekend.
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Yeah, that was great. So we had a 20th edition of the T-DOSE conference. There was some
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of course, there were some editions that were skipped due to the pandemic and some other issues.
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But yeah, 20 editions, so that's nice. That's really, really nice. But where the editions,
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like during the pandemic, were there some online editions, or was this just there and merely
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like skipped and there was nothing happening? Yeah, it was quite tragic, I think, for T-DOSE.
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It's that before T-DOSE was in a school building. So after you had your high school, you could
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do studies there. And we had the whole place for the whole weekend. But unfortunately, we
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could no longer host T-DOSE there. And so the organization then was looking for another venue
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and then COVID hit. So there was like, I guess, three consecutive years of no conference,
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so that it is hard with all the continuity of such a conference. But ever since the pandemic,
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we're slowly growing in terms of attendees and the program and the organization. So I think
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last weekend was another bigger turnout than the year before and the year before that. So it's
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we're on an upward trend. Okay, so but let's take a step back and for everybody out there, what is T-DOSE?
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T-DOSE is the technical Dutch open source event. And it was started with the intention of being
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like a Mini-FOSDEM, or maybe not even mini, I don't know how the big ideas were at the time,
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but it's like we should have like something like FOSDEM in the Netherlands, specifically around
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the region of Eindhoven. And it is in a way like Fossom that it's free admittance. There's a
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couple of tracks. The talks are on the one hand, they are technical, but also more entry level and
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more different kind of aspects about society, impact, could be privacy. There was a workshop
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last weekend about musical, so about editing musical annotations of sheet music. So there's
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a part of the program that can go in different directions. And I think that specifically the fact that
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it's free admittance and that it's a number of booths also from community projects like including
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the FSFE, but also about Debian and the local hackerspace and some others. It really has this
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community vibe to it. And some people are just living there locally, they come to see what's up,
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sometimes you have people from the community that only have a couple of hours to spend,
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then they draw by and say hello. So it's a really easy sort of family-like event.
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That sounds really cozy. Yeah it is. Is it like that the Dutch people come together,
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or are there also people from outside of the Netherlands?
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I've mentioned people there over the years that were not from the Netherlands,
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but that's a rarity I'd say. All right. Why is it focused on Eindhoven?
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I think they just started it. The first edition was a university of Eindhoven.
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And yeah, there was no reason to leave the region also because the main volunteers are from the
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region. And well, the region itself, proud of itself, are being the brain port region.
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So there should be enough tech and IT to go around. Okay, so this is like the technical center
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of the Netherlands. Depends on your ask. So if you talk about finance and maps about the
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Tom Tom booking the big right, that's all an Amsterdam. But if outside of that anything chips and
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better, I'd say yeah, then the brain port region around Eindhoven is so maybe even more high tech,
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but that depends on how you look at it. All right. Now I learned something new. Thank you very much.
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Okay, so this T-DOSE started 20 years ago. This makes 2006. And during those past years,
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you joined the core team of T-DOSE and also you're now like organizing T-DOSE with others.
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How did this all start? Of course, I was already attending T-DOSE
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most of the editions ever since I joined. And I was familiar with the people from the community
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also through other events. And it's like, hey Niko, you're also and this more has maybe more to do
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with my day job. You're also involved with the public sector and could you maybe help us
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get more of the public sector and highlight all the good stuff that is happening in the Netherlands and
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work on a track? Well, we didn't. I didn't manage to fill a whole track that year, but I did find
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some speakers. And before I know it, it's like, oh, you have some good skills that we could use
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in the core team, which you want to help volunteer. So it was like three years ago. And yeah,
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trying to make the most of it. I mean, my time is limited. I try to help where I can. I'd say the
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rest of the core team is doing way more than I do, but I try to help where I can. That sounds
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really good. That sounds like you're a really close team and you're trying to get together and
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basically organize a conference for everybody in the Netherlands. Yes, we really try to make it
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a good cool event, get a good program. I'd say it's also a challenge with having such a team,
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which from the first community, we want to do all of everything ourselves. So we do the web server
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and we do the mail server and the website and everything. So it's quite a bit of a workload
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outside of even hosting the venue and getting the speakers and the booths and sponsors. Of course,
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that so much needed. I see. I needed to smile now because I'm like, isn't this the same
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of every single conference all over Europe? Everybody is like, I need my own infrastructure. I'm hosting
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this myself and I just think it's, I don't know why this is the case. You know what I mean?
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Yeah, this is sort of a bootstrapping problem. You have to get off the ground and who helps you.
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I must say I was also involved last year with the Postgres Day event, PG Day, you know.
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And in that case, it was really nice to be piggybacking on the Postgres Europe organization.
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I used that infrastructure for ticket sales and I think also for hosting the website and there
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was the Postgres community from the UK, I think, already had a template for the website. So
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bootstrapping a new conference in that way was rather easy. So I think it would be nice if there
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was more like that. But then thinking of it now, there's already pre-talks as sort of a main
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conference organizing software that we also leverage in TIDOS. So it's also a way to share and collaborate.
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Absolutely, absolutely. There are quite a lot of free software projects out there that make
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organizing conferences way more easy. And pre-talks is definitely one of them.
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So who is with you in the quarantine? I'm guessing it's not only you.
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No, that would be Wienke and Johan, a couple that I've known as long as I've been to TIDOS.
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They're really the backbone and carry also the weight in other conferences.
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And then Peter and Nick, Nick recently joined, but he's given a lot of energy to the team.
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So that's good. Yeah, Peter as a chair, I think the amount of hours he puts in is overwhelming.
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And I should not forget Marta also talking IT infrastructure and the design because
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yeah, we're on a podcast, so you can't see, but the sticker I have last week and I had is
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an online effort person with a festive head for the 20-year celebration. And each and every year we
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have a different icon. And also Nina is the daughter of Johan and Wienke who made the characters
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for the last few years. And so each and every year we try to get a unique design.
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And they'll get printed on shirts, they'll get printed on marks. So before you know,
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if you attend TIDOS, you have a whole stack of marks and T-shirts of each and every edition.
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Okay, now I definitely need to come next year.
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All right, so this is quite a full team. And what's the something that you find really outstanding
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and that really struck you off TIDOS where you're like, oh, this is a point of view that I have
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not thought about before. I was mostly manning the booth. So I didn't see much talks, but in one
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of the discussions we had about digital autonomy at the booth and sort of devil's advocate question
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that came up was, well, how do you think we can establish a digital autonomy in Europe and a
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free and open source software business ecosystem? If there's no sort of a thin layer of a
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proprietary around the free and open source software to have like a cutting edge and to make sure
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you're not undercut by other players in a global market. So I think that was a there was a very
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I think there was a spicy question to make you think like how do we see to support our free
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no source ecosystem and make sure that the businesses that put in the effort are driving and can
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stay competitive. So the question was how to support free ends of their businesses and how they
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can still be competitive then in the free market against such monopolies. Yeah.
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Second to last episode. So SFP 50 it could be and I now find this very interesting because he
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also talked about monopolies and he was also pointing out how important the next generation
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internet program is in this regard because it is supporting those kinds of projects and also for
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the FSFE do keep calling for a long term funding of free software projects because basically all
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of those free software projects all of you know this is case the comics so I don't need to
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reference it more but all the free software projects they are also in other projects like
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non free software projects and they do need this kind of project even the monopolies because
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they are built on those and therefore we do need this long term funding that the FSFE is calling
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for. What do you think about that answer? I think that's very good especially from from the
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standpoint of FSFE that makes a whole lot of sense I think it's for the business associations
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so in the nanos we recently had a business association sort of get a revival the Dutch open source
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business alliance and I think it's more for them to also say okay we need businesses and
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competitiveness which may be less of a concern for FSFE I think we both want a thriving
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fossil ecosystem. Absolutely. Was there something else that you found really that struck you
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or where you thought like oh this tea does is especially nice compared to other conferences
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or like yeah anything in digital guard. Tea does for me really has this community feel of people
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that are really fast-minded and it's not a regular tech conference but also it's a smaller scale
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maybe a way smaller scale than something like foster them so even mounting the booth of the FSFE
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at a certain time it was a bit low traffic because I was interesting talks going on and I had a chat
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with Sondorf was from the UB-ports booth as well from the community and he happens to be a teacher
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as well so what we're looking with the ad on Sangamon book is how can we leverage that book in education
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and we had a couple of chats all about that already at other events and this was a moment
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where we met and we had some time on our hands and we really started to go down
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like how does the Dutch education system work what are the terms that all the schools have to
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meet and how the book fit in so we now have I'm at least have some ideas how we can get to a
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concrete proposal to have a document added to the book that will help use the book in schools
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for anything digital digital education that's pretty cool yeah there's quite a number of people
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from the free and open source software community that I've come to know from Tidos
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because it's a rather it's a smaller event so you have more time on our hands to talk to certain
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people that's and then ideas like this get started that sounds really nice
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so will you be following up on that or what will be happening there next I think I just
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pressured myself by putting it in a podcast but I intend to I'm sorry for that you can tell me if
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I should cut it out no no I think it's all good and and actually one of the challenges there
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specifically about the education is that this is this is diverse across Europe so we have a
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a Dutch inside with Dutch terms and what is required but there's a whole international aspect
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today so we need to get started and then collaborate across nations to see how do we get something
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universal or that can be converted but you need to keep me posted on that so we need to do a
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another episode about how and Sangaman arrived in the Netherlands in the school system that will be
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20:46.240 --> 20:52.160
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great yeah all right but do you have for Tidos do you have something to recommend to all of us
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20:52.160 --> 20:59.040
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on us to have a look at yeah so most of the talks are actually recorded and they were live streamed
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20:59.040 --> 21:04.640
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this year last year they were recorded and broadcasted also on peer tube this year they were even
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live streamed to peer tube so the live stream should already be up if I understand correctly
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and one of the talks that had multiple people talked to me about how great it was was the talk
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by Michael Boelen there was a we promote and talk about open but are we actually doing it
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enough and what I got from other people because I didn't attend the talk instead it was very much
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about how to engage newcomers and and invite them in our false community one of the examples he
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was working on last year is to make a very beginner friendly Linux tutorial and write it in
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Dutch so it's really accessible and make it sort of universal so it's not just oh this is the
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the Debian guide or this is the Fedora guide now it is generic Linux and doesn't introduction
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and also that the way we provide present information and write the documentation has to be done
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with care to make sure that people can follow along and not that halfway through reading a
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tutorial they think oh this is too complex I lost what I was doing again and then
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they never get into it I know what you mean so that it's like more of a aiming to unbord people who
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are like not the technical kind of people but who would also like to be able to use Linux
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indeed yeah to get everybody to join in without dumbing down the content to still engage them
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which of course is challenging as any writer of documentation would do absolutely but it's
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really needed because I mean like there are loads of people out there who would like to be able to
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use free and open source software in their daily lives but it's just sometimes for them this
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feels more like a barrier and this kind of approach really preaches those this barrier and really
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helps to like get people unborded from inner and yeah get them from the to collect them from
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where they are standing and not be like first you need to step up here on my step and then we
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can talk you know what I mean like it's more about like getting down to their level and say come
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I'll take you with me come along yeah and also make sure that there's nothing that trips up
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somebody where they might get lost along the way and then say okay this is too complicated this
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23:57.920 --> 24:04.400
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is not for me and then give up I will watch this talk now because I'm like really
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it did I already opened the tab so I will keep it you got me hooked in apart from the amazing
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24:12.960 --> 24:18.880
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talks apparently that are happening there at Tito's and the workshops of course is there a
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24:18.880 --> 24:24.640
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challenge that Tito's is also facing currently I heard you mentioning that there's also some
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some wish to have more sponsors and to get people from outside the Netherlands attracted
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24:32.560 --> 24:42.080
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there how do you want to achieve that is that a mean question no that's not a mean question how do
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24:42.080 --> 24:48.800
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we want to achieve that by growing the event and making it more relevant and just I think
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especially for sponsors it's amazing how many organizations are willing to sponsor if you ask
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them and make sure that the events aligns with their goals because often the event does but they
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25:01.760 --> 25:09.360
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are not aware of how what Tito's is and how it relates to them so I think sponsorship for example
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is something that could be done a lot with effort from the core team to send out more messages
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more emails do more calls to get more sponsors in and the second point of getting more attendees
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25:25.840 --> 25:30.880
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I think that has to do with creating awareness so we're on pre-tube we are mustard on
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25:32.960 --> 25:38.000
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now on a podcast we have been on other podcasts as well to grow as well
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25:38.560 --> 25:43.760
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and reach more audience all right yeah I kind of found out was there so that was nice and he did
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25:43.760 --> 25:53.680
|
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some interviews and also there's a Dutch Angry Nerds podcast and you imagine two tables joined
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25:53.680 --> 26:00.720
|
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together and then like six people around it doing a collaborative podcast with a video live stream
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26:00.720 --> 26:07.040
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so they were there I think the first time two years ago and they in the in the hole where there's
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26:07.040 --> 26:12.960
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also the booths they just record the podcast they did that on Saturday and it did that on Sunday
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it's like a special podcast edition but it's also something that reached an audience and there's
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interaction when people from the booths or speakers can join in in the podcast and yeah it's really
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26:24.240 --> 26:30.320
|
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fun in the sense that it's like oh yeah somebody joins in in the podcast say what I want to say
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26:30.320 --> 26:35.440
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they have some discussion and it's like oh you you just get somebody else to fill up your seat
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26:35.440 --> 26:41.760
|
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and we reached around the topic so it's a continuous podcast with new people coming in
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26:43.120 --> 26:48.720
|
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maybe we can link it in the show notes that sounds really fun okay I'm very much looking forward
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26:48.720 --> 26:54.800
|
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now to be there next year on the fifth and sixth of June yes is there also something that our
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26:54.800 --> 27:02.240
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listeners can do as our final question to support Tito's and the organization yeah of course you
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27:02.240 --> 27:09.920
|
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can all come to the conference next year or another year but also if please share all the announcements
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27:09.920 --> 27:17.360
|
|
and look at PiaTube what recordings of this year or the previous years and if you'd like something
|
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27:17.360 --> 27:24.480
|
|
please share it around and yeah give some some more buzz about Tito's very nice thank you so much
|
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27:25.200 --> 27:30.400
|
|
thank you so much also for taking the time and talking with me about Tito's very much
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27:30.400 --> 27:38.160
|
|
appreciated yeah thank you this was the software freedom podcast if you like this episode please
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27:38.160 --> 27:43.200
|
|
recommend Tito friends and rate it stay tuned for more inspiring conversations that
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27:43.200 --> 27:49.760
|
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explority importance of software freedom and its impact on our digital lives this podcast is
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27:49.760 --> 27:55.360
|
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presented to you by the free software foundation europe we are a charity that works on promoting
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27:55.440 --> 28:04.240
|
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software freedom if you like our word please consider supporting us with our donation you find more
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28:04.240 --> 28:18.080
|
|
information under fsafi.org slash donate thank you so much bye bye
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</div>
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</pre>
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<p><a href="/news/podcast/2026/episode-52.html">Back to the episode SFP#52</a></p>
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