#14 Events on English page are Dutch

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opened 2 years ago by mk · 6 comments
mk commented 2 years ago

For the yearly report I just realised that https://fsfe.org/events/events.en.html currently shows many events, for which we have a Dutch translations, in the Dutch version instead the English one.

@paul my feeling is that this happened after the migration to git.

For the yearly report I just realised that https://fsfe.org/events/events.en.html currently shows many events, for which we have a Dutch translations, in the Dutch version instead the English one. @paul my feeling is that this happened after the migration to git.
paul was assigned by mk 2 years ago
mk added the
bug
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paul added the
translations
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wontfix
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design
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bug
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paul commented 2 years ago

This is a reoccurring usage error, and a usage error only. The only thing that can be done technically, bar funding the next 20 years of AI translation research, is change the specification, which will likely cause confusion to an equal degree.

When I rewrote the build script in 2012, I was explicitly told, that the case, where an article exists without an English language version is negligible. Since then we received repeated complaints, that suggest the contrary. I can however see three sensible ways to handle this case:

Method A:

Display an article in its original language (which is obviously not English). The 2002 build script tried to do this, but the process involved some guess work, as the original language could not reliably be determined.

Method B:

Display the article in any language. This was a slight deviation introduced to the original concept for performance reasons. The rational behind it was, that the first translation of a national language article would naturally be the English one, and any non-English article would consequently only exist in its original language anyway. You will notice that this rational fails at the point, that we apparently have a Dutch translator who is comfortable translating texts from German. An unplanned, but quite foreseeable case.

Method C:

Omit the article in the English version. I decided against this because it would discourage translators from writing an English translation, which would be the preferable solution.

There is one more radical method, of altogether refusing to build an article without an English version. I feel that this would even more be perceived as a technical defect, as Method C might be too.

@Mathias: do you want me to discuss a transition from Method B to Method C with translators and web?

This is a reoccurring usage error, and a usage error only. The only thing that can be done _technically_, bar funding the next 20 years of AI translation research, is change the specification, which will likely cause confusion to an equal degree. When I rewrote the build script in 2012, I was explicitly told, that the case, where an article exists without an English language version is negligible. Since then we received repeated complaints, that suggest the contrary. I can however see three sensible ways to handle this case: Method A: --------- Display an article in its original language (which is obviously not English). The 2002 build script tried to do this, but the process involved some guess work, as the original language could not reliably be determined. Method B: --------- Display the article in any language. This was a slight deviation introduced to the original concept for performance reasons. The rational behind it was, that the first translation of a national language article would naturally be the English one, and any non-English article would consequently only exist in its original language anyway. You will notice that this rational fails at the point, that we apparently have a Dutch translator who is comfortable translating texts from German. An unplanned, but quite foreseeable case. Method C: --------- Omit the article in the English version. I decided against this because it would discourage translators from writing an English translation, which would be the preferable solution. There is one more radical method, of altogether refusing to build an article without an English version. I feel that this would even more be perceived as a technical defect, as Method C might be too. @Mathias: do you want me to discuss a transition from Method B to Method C with translators and web?
max.mehl commented 2 years ago
Owner

To clarify: This only happens if there is no EN version, right? For example, an event written in DE and translated to NL?

I would be fine with method C. Translating from DE to EN for example is a PITA and in most cases not really necessary since it’s of little interest for people outside this language region.

To clarify: This only happens if there is no EN version, right? For example, an event written in DE and translated to NL? I would be fine with method C. Translating from DE to EN for example is a PITA and in most cases not really necessary since it's of little interest for people outside this language region.
paul removed the
design
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paul added the
feature-request
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paul removed the
wontfix
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paul commented 2 years ago

@max.mehl: correct

I have labeled this a feature-request, because it is really a change in the specification.

I also think, this might be a bad idea, because it enables huge content deviation among different languages. We were never planning to have this, and are not prepared for this organisationally.

@max.mehl: correct I have labeled this a feature-request, because it is really a change in the specification. I also think, this might be a bad idea, because it enables huge content deviation among different languages. We were never planning to have this, and are not prepared for this organisationally.
mk commented 2 years ago
Owner

@paul Is there a way to automatically inform translators@ in case there is an event or news entry without an English version or in general a file without an EN translation? This way we know about them, and can translate them.

@paul Is there a way to automatically inform translators@ in case there is an event or news entry without an English version or in general a file without an EN translation? This way we know about them, and can translate them.
paul commented 1 year ago

This would belong on a translation status page. Maybe we should merge this with Issue #140

This would belong on a translation status page. Maybe we should merge this with Issue #140
max.mehl removed the due date 0001-01-01 8 months ago
max.mehl commented 6 months ago
Owner

I’ll close this issue since it’s specific to Dutch and English.

There is no optimal solution, and hiding content is considered bad practice in most discussions we had on web@. So unless someone has a better idea and a good approach for solving it, I’ll close this old ticket with references to already closed issues.

I'll close this issue since it's specific to Dutch and English. There is no optimal solution, and hiding content is considered bad practice in most discussions we had on web@. So unless someone has a better idea and a good approach for solving it, I'll close this old ticket with references to already closed issues.
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